Oh, hi. Hi, I got caught up
in one of those game apps.
You know, it happens to all of us, right?
I don't even know why I was playing on the phone.
I've got a sweet backstage game area between shows.
I go back there
and relax.
Sometimes I invite friends in as I did earlier today.
And, uh, we filmed it.
Meet Rooster Teeth.
I'm here with Gus Sorola and Geoff Ramsey.
These guys are experts at video games.
- We brought a blast from your past. - You did not bring that freaking game.
We found "Bill Nye the Science Guy: Stop the Rock!"
Such a classic that you could find it
at a thrift store and they will pay you to take it.
I wouldn't be surprised.
Here, let's fire this up. Let's see what we're working with.
I love that also that the icon to launch it is a stop sign.
Like, it's already trying to warn you, "Do not play this game."
Do not load this game.
All right, here we go.
- I guess we should just bust in? - Buzzer?
- We don't wanna rude. - Don't wanna be rude.
- So, then you go in... - Oh, it's like "Myst."
It is probably nothing like "Myst."
Sue Nami, you're deep into the science of the ocean.
We'll count on you to tell us what's up down there.
- Bill, you know you can count on me... - I get it. "Tsunami."
And what's up down there.
Huh? Huh?
- That's great. - Come on.
- Bravo. - Oh, that's super layered.
I used to be a kid's show host. Not anymore.
Not anymore, bitches.
How did... How did we get here?
I'm reluctant to call it the worst thing I ever did.
Now you're doing something with us, so, you've reached a new low point.
Looks like you'll be done with this in a couple days.
If you wanna cut back to us in January...
Yeah, I think maybe we should start the show.
Okay.
Welcome. Welcome to the show.
I'm Bill Nye or as you may know me from thousands of leader boards,
A-S-S.
I mean... I mean BSN, come on.
Games have been around a long time.
We've been playing them for at least 5000 years.
And that's just that one game of Monopoly.
Why do we love playing games?
It seems to me that at least part of it
is that when you win
your brain gets a jolt of dopamine.
A chemical that makes you feel good. There are also proven benefits to gaming.
Social bonding,
stress relief,
hand-eye coordination.
I spent... I spent a little time.
The games themselves have changed but the reasons we play them haven't.
I used to play Risk,
now we play Civilization.
Scavenger hunts are now Pokémon.
And chess is, well...
It's chess and it's still... It's still really hard.
It may surprise you to learn that video games
are a $100-billion-a-year industry.
That's more than Hollywood makes at the box office.
A lot of people have the wrong idea about the typical gamer, too.
It's not always some stoned dude in his parents' basement.
Almost half of all video gamers are girls and women.
And more than a third of the gamers are over 35 years old.
And if you are that dude
watching this in your parents' basement
and you think I'm talking about you,
that's 'cause you're high
and paranoid!
We are watching you, Justin.
Part of me wonders if playing games gives us an evolutionary advantage.
Now, that may not be provable but the benefits I've mentioned
sure make pretty useful survival skills.
We do know that people around the world are gaming.
Scientists are still trying to figure out
if games make us more violent
or actually less violent.
Do they isolate us
or make us part of a bigger community?
Do they make us lazy
or stimulate the mind?
Like many things, there is the threat of addiction.
But how dangerous is that addiction?
The science isn't settled.
And there aren't any cheat codes for reality.
So, to help us level-up,
we sent our correspondent Derek Muller to the Netherlands
where one particular video game is changing lives.
Oh, hang on. I got it.
Watch this.
Ooh.
Imprisonment and torture.
Slaughter and death.
For nearly 400 years,
this Dutch prison was home to the dreaded pain chamber.
And now, they make video games here.
This video game may have been created in a creepy old building
but there's nothing scary about it.
However, this game does hold a truly incredible secret.
Tim Laning is the founder and CEO of Grendel Games,
a company specializing in games that bring a positive change to the world.
We got a call from a Dutch surgeon called Henk ten Cate Hoedemaker.
H-O-E-D-E-M-A-K-E-R. Hoedemaker.
- Hoedemaker. - Hoedemaker, it means "hat maker."
He had a problem.
He had to train surgeons in the basic skills for laparoscopic surgery.
- What is that? - Abdominal surgery
that you do inside the stomach through a camera.
You need different motor skills
because if you move the tip of your instruments to the left
you have to move the handle to the right.
And we teach that with boxes.
- Okay, ready to play? - Yeah.
Then you pick up a piece of material and place it to the right,
pick it up, place it back.
But it's just a mechanical task, it doesn't lead to anything.
In surgery, we do unpredictable things.
You need your brains to solve a problem, find a solution, figure it out,
so, that gave me the idea, "let's make a game."
The only difference should be that you have to control the game
with your laparoscopic instruments.
So, the goal: design a game
that trains the fine motor skills needed for surgery,
but is unpredictable enough to keep the player totally engaged.
There are five major things that need to be trained,
so, we tried to apply video game mechanics
to create a surgical training tool that is a lot of fun to play.
Great, great, great.
- What is in this end? - It's a flame-thrower.
A lot of video game reviews gave it high ratings
and they didn't even know that it was a laparoscopy training game.
That was our ultimate goal.
Yeah, get out of here. So, this is just like surgery, right?
Almost.
It's very useful. It's a good training device. It works.
I thought I was nailing this but now it seems like the patient could die.
- It's not my problem. - No.
Whoa. Whoa.
Yes.
Very cool.
That's really how we train surgeons.
It's, yeah, one of the ways we train surgeons.
It's the craziest game because you're trying to get these guys to move around
and then these things that look like giant tongues come out and try to smash them.
Why did they develop this thing?
This is all about what we call muscle memory,
but of course, there is no memory in the muscles.
It's all in the brains. But the point is, uh...
a memory so good that it feels like it's all in the muscles.
They don't have that because they don't practice.
And now that they have this video game, they practice
and then they get a lot better at their motor skills
and that translates to better outcomes from surgery.
So, if I'm a patient,
can I apply or can I try to get my insurance company
to fund me to go to video game hospital?
To a hospital that has certified video training?
I think you just get that if you're lucky, yeah.
Hopefully, you know, this program, I think, is spreading throughout the world
and some of the older surgeons are sort of,
you know, they're not... Exactly.
They're not so sure. "What are you, coming in with your video games?"
I learned to light matches in my day."
Then the guys say to these old surgeons, the really experienced surgeons:
"Come here, try the game. See if you're any good."
An old guy comes over,
and he does it in one. You know, like this guy.
So, I think that is a great validation for the game.
That is cool.
That if you're good at surgery, you're also good at this game.
- That's reassuring. - I would say it is.
So, how many mistakes did the old guys make on the way up?
- Who knows, right? - They're well-trained now.
They got to play with a real-world tongue.
- No, but that's pretty cool. - Yeah.
- So, is this the future? - Yeah.
And in education, more generally, I think the term "gamification" is huge.
The idea that you can build in some sort of intrinsic motivation
to get people to practice skills that they otherwise are not motivated to do.
They get the dopamine stimulation by success without having to...
What would I say? Gall bladders.
Yeah, do something in the real world, right?
This is a way to simulate those conditions
and create motivation around any topic you like.
They're working on other games to teach kids, like, calculus.
- So, if you think... Exactly, right? - Cool!
If you think about gamifying that,
I think it's great, you know? Everyone loves games.
If you can make games that you can take away life skills from...
Hold on a second, so, the same company that's making...
- Training surgeons. - Yeah.
...Is also proposing that they teach calculus?
- Exactly. - So, it's all those things. It's reward,
it's hand-eye coordination,
and it sounds like it's socialization.
- Yeah, absolutely. - It's cool. Getting along with people.
- Nicely done. Thank you. Blow it up. - Thank you.
We've just seen what games can do to our bodies,
but what can they do to our brains and our society?
Here to discuss it is our expert panel.
We have Dr. Hilarie Cash,
psychologist and co-founder of reSTART, a video game addiction clinic.
Dr. Shawn Green, professor of psychology,
University of Wisconsin-Madison.
You study video games' effect on the brain.
I'm fine.
And Jonna Mae...
- You're MissesMae? - Yes, I am.
You guys know MissesMae?
Professional gamer. You make your living playing games
- and people watch you. This is so cool. - Yes.
- It's crazy, isn't it? - Well, it is a little...
- Yeah. - ...absurd.
So, hold it a second.
Dr. Green, what are the effects on the brain?
So, I think the important thing to first start with is the type of video game.
So, does the video game have certain content,
does it have certain mechanics, does it ask the player to do certain things?
It would be silly to think that a game like, you know, Minesweeper or Solitaire
would have the same effects as a game like "Halo" or "Battlefield."
And so the type of game that I've studied
is the more maligned type, probably,
in terms of how society views video games.
They're the first-person shooters,
the third-person shooters, we call these action video games.
- And so these... - What are the examples?
"Grand Theft Auto" or something?
- "Grand Theft Auto" would be an example... - Whoo!
...of a third-person shooter game.
"Whoo"? Stealing cars, right on.
So, um, "Call of Duty,"
"Battlefield,"
these would be first-person shooter video games.
What matters to us isn't the perspective so much as the demands they place
on the perceptual system, the cognitive system.
So, they move very quickly in these games.
And so the impact that we've seen of playing this type of game is positive,
so its benefits to the perceptual system, to the cognitive system...
Even if I'm stealing cars and shooting people?
- You'll be... - Not necessarily in that order.
I suppose your perception and cognition would be better while you do that.
You know, from playing those games.
And so, you know, this is everything from low-level vision
to what we would think of as higher-level cognition,
things like multitasking.
Often what we see is an increased ability
to abuse the attentional system, at least from playing the first-person...
The attentional system?
The same system that would allow you, if you're having a conversation
with someone in a crowded restaurant,
to pay attention to your conversationalist's...
I'm sorry, what?
...Speech and to kind of tamp down everyone else's speech.
So, you only really attend to your partner's speech.
And you don't notice what's going on in the background.
What we see is that people who play these shooter games
actually become better at doing this
so, you know, they're better at amplifying what they want to attend to
and suppressing the things that they think are just noise.
So, you play games for a living. What did you start out doing?
- You were a nurse? - Yes, I was a nurse.
And during nursing school, I'd play a lot of video games
to just kind of relieve stress.
'Cause I did an accelerated nursing program
and I barely had any time to, like,
see friends and hang out with people.
Not if you're playing games all day.
Well, I actually preferred playing games more than seeing friends...
I'm very familiar with that feeling.
It... I mean, it just felt like I could be with myself
and just be in my thoughts.
And, you know, improving as I go along in these games.
And I actually preferred that
'cause I'm always constantly, like,
with patients or I'm with co-workers
and I'm always around people. I love just being in my own head.
So, Hilarie,
you started a clinic
- for people who play a lot. - Right.
How many people come to...? How did this...?
How did you start such a business?
Well, the young...
It's mostly young men who come to reSTART.
I am shocked.
They're mostly 18 to 28.
Really?
And they are...
You know, these are mostly bright young men
who have managed to get through high school and get into college
and then once they're in college,
the demands of college, the lack of home structure,
all of that just goes together and pretty soon they have failed out.
Often losing fabulous scholarships and so forth.
And they're depressed,
they're anxious,
um...
- and they seek help. - All right.
Fundamental question, everybody.
I'm Uncle Bill,
I watch the nephews, especially,
playing in a focused fashion? Can we say "focused"?
Mm-hm.
Do violent video games make you more violent?
So, I think it's important to kind of talk about what violence is.
So, violence is the far-end of aggression.
Aggression is a, you know, willful intention to cause harm.
Violence is all the way at the end of that continuum.
You know, willful intent to cause severe body harm.
- Intent to harm. - Intent to harm, um...
but I think the research shows
that, you know, playing violent video games
will move you a little bit in that continuum.
But it's an effect size that, you know,
might change the extent to which you interpret a bump in the hallway
as aggressive or not.
It's not going to take someone who is...
has no risk factors for aggression,
and for them to interpret that bump as aggressive
and then to do something violent.
There's just not research that says that that's what happens.
Along this line, does it make you more social or less social?
This is a fascinating question to me.
I feel like I'm more social now,
because in high school, outside of, like, playing video games,
I didn't really make a lot of friends.
I was kind of a loner, and I didn't talk to...
I didn't have a lot of friends. I didn't talk to anybody.
But when I was in video games, I had a voice.
I could be whoever I want to be if I wanted to.
So, you find people, like, all over the world...
Mm-hm.
- ...to play at the same time. - Yeah.
So, for you, your experience was that the video gaming experience
helped you overcome some of your social anxiety.
But I can tell you that the clients who come to reSTART
are almost universally very socially anxious,
and they report that their... The years spent in front of the screen
playing video games,
they feel social online, and they feel kind of safe online,
but out in face-to-face relationships, they actually feel less comfortable.
- Yeah. - How do you make a living?
- Um, so... - How do you...? What...? Sorry.
So, I started doing this about five years ago.
But I didn't see it as something that could sustain me
until, like, two years ago.
I was like, "Wow, I'm actually pretty decent at this game."
And I wanna show my friends that.
So, I would upload my videos on YouTube and I would show my friends like:
- "Look at my"... - This is a video of you playing.
Yeah, and so that's how it started. I would do video game commentaries.
How do you make money? What, do you have sponsors?
Yes, I do.
So, typically it's ad revenue.
For YouTube videos...
I will get 90 percent,
and the company I'm partnered with would get 10 percent.
That's, like, my contract.
And... And then I get sponsored deals,
so on Twitch, which is a livestreaming website,
they allow you to subscribe to the person...
- Yeah. - The broadcaster.
- So, you play a lot. - I do.
- And you don't feel you're addicted? - No.
Is there something...?
Shawn, is there something to the science of addiction?
I think it's important to note that playing a lot doesn't mean addicted.
- I know. Just like... - So...
other things.
So... You know, so... You know, addiction would mean
that you're suffering some life harm because of the activity,
and you can't stop even though you would like to be able to.
And it's something where, you know, we need more evidence.
But I think the evidence is becoming increasingly compelling
that there is a segment of people for whom gaming becomes a problem,
where, you know, they play in such a way that it causes...
you know, harm to their life.
There's still questions about what's the prevalence rate?
What's the...? Even what is the right checklist to use
to determine whether or not someone meets the diagnosis?
One of the things that's really interesting
is to think about at what age do most drug addicts and alcoholics
sort of start their addiction?
- It's, like, middle school, right? - It's usually in the teenage years, right?
But a lot of the guys that we work with at reSTART
actually have started gaming pretty heavily
when they were in elementary school.
So, they've got a lot more years
of problematic...
- technology use. - They put in the hours...
- They're putting in those hours, - ...of getting addicted.
And as a result, their development is being quite affected by it.
- Development in socializing. - They're...
No, I... That makes perfect sense. Thank you all very much.
This is an emerging, emerging topic.
This is cool.
Games are all about exploring your boundaries
and discovering things you never knew before,
which is why we sent in correspondent Nazeem Hussain
to talk with some pro gamers who've been playing these games
since they were kids.
Who would imagine that a kid like this
could make millions of dollars playing video games?
Well, he can.
In the age of e-sport, video gamers like Froggen
are competing for big time cash.
With the rise of e-sports,
there's billions at stake for corporate giants,
and millions for the best players in games like "League of Legends."
Pro gamers from around the world live here
at Team Echo Fox.
Kind of like a fraternity house for gamers,
prepping to take on well-financed teams from Korea and Japan.
There's a fair amount of money in video game-playing.
It's not even remotely near its maximum.
We're just at the very beginning
of the economic viability and growth of the e-sports category.
Can I ask how much you make?
No.
I mean, what is money?
- Yeah. - Money's meaningless?
- Can I borrow some money? - No.
Froggen's being modest.
Top players can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars in prize money
but can also get income from sponsors and subscribers to their live streams.
Do you think your parents tell their friends
that you play video games for a living?
They don't need to tell
whoever they work with or whoever they meet
that I play games,
because their friends already know me. That's how big it is.
But if it's so big,
there has to be a downside, right?
Scientists are now taking a hard look at whether all that playing around
can actually hurt you.
So, I played a game with Froggen and Jace,
where I ask them a few tough questions.
I think for most games, it creates, like, a social environment,
because you play with and against other people.
Digital and online interaction, in my opinion,
can be some of the purest ways human beings can interact
because it's essentially two consciousnesses.
Have you ever punched someone in the face?
Not that I recall.
- Have you ever kicked someone? - Accidentally.
Have you ever, like, intentionally, violently just gone up to someone
and kicked him?
- No. No. - Like head-butted them?
- Pinched them? No? Okay. - No.
But you've been playing games
- for a large part of your life? - Yeah.
If you hadn't been playing video games, you may have punched someone?
Look, I grew up watching Bugs Bunny cartoons,
and Bugs Bunny blew up Elmer Fudd I don't know how many times.
I never wanted to take dynamite and blow up...
No, but Bugs Bunny used to eat a lot of carrots.
I used to eat carrots because I saw Bugs Bunny eating it.
It made me want to eat more carrots.
Can sunlight kill a video gamer?
You need to explain to me what sunlight is.
If you were slacking off with the gaming, did your parents say, "Hey",
stop playing sports outside, get back inside,
and start playing video games. This is important. This is your career"?
No.
You know, when I wa... In a game, when you get really frustrated,
- and you write, like, "You guys suck." - I know that.
Yeah, and I have done that in the past.
Kind of looking back on it, I'm like, "Okay, that's not good."
No one gets anything from that other than me letting out my frustration.
There you go, kids. Lesson learned.
Don't tell other people they suck. It's a good lesson.
- Did you play games as a kid? - Yeah, heaps of games.
I played "Duck Hunt," I played "Super Mario Bros."
Took time off, because it really ate my life.
Like there was a part of my life I can't remember what I did.
I spent so much time playing video games.
Did your parents say, "Nazeem",
you shouldn't be spending so much time... "?
- Yeah. - Or were they happy
to have you sequestered in the...
- They were happy to have me in the house. - ...in the isolation zone?
Absolutely. I've got enough vitamin D.
- And... - Yeah, well, you're...
Actually, you might have to hang out more to get it, you know.
My people have to get... just to get any. It's all we can do.
So, that's why you shouldn't be playing video games.
But for us, it's fine.
But, no, I play them.
If you made a video game, what would happen in it?
- If I made a video... - I got human migration with skin color.
Okay, if I made a video game, it would be about...
a young South Asian comedian from Australia...
- Hypothetically. - ...who...
Amazing, brilliant.
- Brilliant guy, insightful. - Yup, yup. Very funny.
Is he good with his hands? Is he very skilled with weapons?
No, what he does...
All he does is... His aim in the game is to stalk his favorite science TV host.
Like, he's gotta stay outside his house, go through his rubbish,
speak to his ex-girlfriends and...
Or boyfriends.
Just, you know.
In an effort... And the ultimate... Like, the ultimate is to, like,
become his adopted son or something.
That would be... Then you win the game.
Then you win the game. I wanna win the game.
Wow.
This is very troubling. That's right off the top of your head.
Thanks, Nazeem.
Blow it up!
You've got a vivid imagination, young man.
We've talked a lot about how games shape our world,
but what about the future of those games?
Chris Prynoski, we call him Chris P., is here to play with me today,
and talk about a new virtual reality technology
which will revolutionize gaming.
- Isn't that right, Chris? - That sounds exactly right to me, Bill.
There you go.
You are an animator for shows like Metalocalypse,
and The Venture Bros. and video for games like "Diablo III."
And you are here to tell us about some new VR technology from Google,
- the Tilt Brush? - That's exactly right.
And so how does it work?
I'm gonna show you. You got your headset here
which I'm gonna put on, which might take me a minute.
That looks pretty good.
Let's see how...
You wear the hat to keep your hair from becoming an issue?
Yeah, you don't want anything bad to happen.
- And then you've got these things. - Yeah, so this right here, right?
This is like your paintbrush.
This right here is like your palette.
We have colors. You have colors on the palette.
What you can do is you can paint with this stuff.
- So, look. I started a drawing here. - Whoa.
Yeah, it is a drawing and it's a...
- You can twist it. - Look what's happening.
You can twist it by moving around it.
I like to... I like to call this one "Debating a Creationist."
- And we can go inside. You can see... - Now, what is that?
- He's got a little, tiny brain. - Oh, because of the very small brain.
He's got a little tiny brain in him. Yeah.
- Yes. - I don't know.
So, Chris, you're gonna draw some pictures.
- We got a list of words. - Yup.
Let's see how many I can get.
- Are we ready? - I'm ready.
I'm watching. I'm watching the big screen.
- All right. - White circle.
All right. Yeah.
- Really close. - O?
Egg. An egg?
A sphere.
A planet.
Pluto.
- A baseball. Baseball. - You got it.
All right. One down.
- 108 stitches. - All right.
That is cool.
I mean, you're just waving stuff in the air,
- and here we are. - So, here we go.
With these crazy things. Here we go. There it is.
White circle, squiggle... cloud.
Waves? Surfing?
Mountaintop?
Hair? Head.
- Person? - Pretty close.
Wait, big.
- Mouth? - Mm-hm.
Is it a mouth or the hair? Person.
Wait, he's got eyes. Or she.
With a nose.
Mm-hm.
He's hair man.
Blue hair man. He's Hydra. He's...
He's...
Or she is...
She has a mustache.
- It's Albert Einstein. - Yeah, you got it.
There you go.
Yeah, let's see for this one here.
So, but, Chris, you're, like, a real artist, right?
I am, and I usually draw better than this.
It's a blue circle.
- Isn't entirely accurate. - Blue circle...
- You get the idea. - ...with green squiggles of things.
- Yeah. - Blue circle, green squiggles.
It's the Earth! It's the Earth from space, obviously.
- And then... - When you... When you go
waving it up to the upper right...
An asteroid!
It's coming into the Earth in flames.
- It's global warming. - You got it.
Yes.
All right.
The darts were easier.
Off-white. Off-white.
Tripod? Telescope? Beaker... Flask. Erlenmeyer flask.
You busy, baby bear?
With calibrations... volumetric flask?
Maybe this is really what it is.
- Test tube? - Man, I thought this was it.
- Maybe I don't know enough about science. - That's not a Florence flask.
- It's an Erlenmeyer. - Let's see. Is that a...?
It's got a red liquid of death.
- Yeah, yeah. - It has poison.
And I thought I was drawing correctly.
- But I guess not. - And then, it's enclosed.
It's a calorimeter.
Let me try this other one again. All right. So, here we go.
It's a figure eight. It's a boat. It's a...
It's a statue. It's a du... It's a duck.
And he's gonna... go to the test tube.
- And he's gonna beak it. It's a beaker. - Yeah!
- Okay, that's right. - So... so, Chris...
Chris...
I know you got a lot going on. Wait right there.
- Yeah. Uh-oh. - Wait right there.
What's gonna happen?
The problem with VR is you're very exposed.
- Wait, wait. - Don't know what's happening around you.
Oh, these kids.
- What's happening now? - I'll show you a flask when we're done.
Oh, great. Right on.
Thanks.
That's all I got on the list, but I can keep painting.
- If you want. - He's done a great job.
Chris, this is cool, man.
All right.
- Bowtie? - Let's see. This is...
- This is extra credit stuff right now. - Bowtie? Lab coat?
I got a feeling.
Oh, that's not the right color.
There's a...
Actually, sometimes, after certain parties, it's pretty close.
I got a feeling, it's gonna be...
a guy bent...
- on saving the world. - Yeah. There you go.
Thank you very much. Very cool.
Chris P., ladies and gentlemen.
Join us. Come out here again.
Come on out here? Where is here?
- Take your... Here I am next to you. - Oh, got you.
I don't know if you know this. There's a whole real world out here.
- Chris P., ladies and gentlemen. - The real world.
Now, before we go on, just so you know...
this is a beaker.
- So, beakers open like this. - I really thought
- I knew what a beaker looked like. - And that's a flask.
I bet you I can get it so you'll remember.
- That's why the Muppet looks like that. - A flask... Yup.
A flask has a neck.
Neck. All right.
- Flask has a neck. - Awesome.
A little mnemonic for your beaker-flask clash.
I think the only way that's gonna get me to remember it for the rest of my life
is messing it up on your show.
All right, it was cool. What do you mean? You went to the...
You went to the bird beak and I caught up.
So...
this little demonstration was just a taste of what virtual reality games
could look like.
Imagine using it to teach architecture, or history, or medicine.
Who knows where it will lead?
That's the show.
Thank you very much, Chris P. Thanks, panelists.
Thanks, Nazeem. Thanks, Derek.
Now, would you all just go out there and save the world?
Let's go, people. Let's go.
Blow it up.